Altair Engineering Inc.
Q4 2020 Earnings Call Transcript

Published: 26 Feb 2021

[Operator:]

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to Altair Engineering Incorporated Fourth Quarter 2020 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would like to hand the conference over to our Chief Financial Officer, Howard Morof.

[Howard Morof:]

Good morning. Welcome and thank you for attending Altair's earnings conference call for the fourth quarter of 2020. I'm Howard Morof, Chief Financial Officer of Altair. And with me on the call is Jim Scapa, our Founder, Chairman and CEO; and Matt Brown, who assumes the CFO role on March 16. After market close yesterday, we issued a press release with details regarding our fourth quarter performance and guidance for Q1 and the full year 2021, which can be accessed on the Investor Relations section of our website at investor.altair.com. This call is being recorded and a replay will be available on the IR section of our website following the conclusion of this call. During today's call, we will make statements related to our business that may be considered forward-looking under federal securities laws. These statements reflect our views only as of today, and should not be considered representative of our views as of any subsequent date. We disclaim any obligation to update any forward-looking statements or outlook. These statements are subject to a variety of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. These risks are summarized in the press release that we issued yesterday. For a further discussion of the material risks and other important factors that could affect our actual results, please refer to those contained in our quarterly and annual reports filed with the SEC as well as other documents that we have filed or may file from time to time. During the course of today's call, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP measures is included in our press release. Finally, at times in our prepared comments or responses to your questions, we may offer metrics that are incremental to our usual presentation, to provide greater insight into the dynamics of our business or our quarterly results. Please be advised that we may or may not continue to provide this additional detail in the future. With that, let me turn the call over to Jim for his prepared remarks. Jim?

[James Scapa:]

Thank you, Howard, and welcome to everyone on the call. Altair had an excellent fourth quarter and full year 2020, especially given the global COVID-19 pandemic and economic uncertainty. I am proud of what our team accomplished in 2020. In a year of business disruptions and personal challenges, Altair brought to market broad and deep additions and enhancements to our product portfolio, while delivering solid financial results.

[Howard Morof:]

Thanks, Jim. I appreciate the kind words and I'm delighted to have contributed to the growth and success of Altair over the course of the past decade. I will cover our Q4 and full year 2020 results, while Matt will detail our expectations for 2021. As Jim mentioned, we delivered excellent fourth quarter results on the top and bottom lines driven by software product revenue, well in excess of our expectations going into the quarter. I would like to remind everyone that our seasonal billings patterns coupled with the treatment of revenue under ASC 606 results in heightened seasonality in revenue and associated metrics with higher software product revenue recorded in our first and fourth quarters of any given year and we expect this pattern to continue. We exceeded our revenue guidance for Q4 driven by strong growth in software product revenue and handily exceeded our adjusted EBITDA guidance driven by the combination of strong software revenue performance in continued controls over our operating expenses.

[Matthew Brown:]

Thank you, Howard. I want to start by thanking Howard for providing a very thorough seamless transition over these past 2 months. When I started on January 4, I could not have imagined a better handover of CFO responsibilities. He's left us in a great spot for the future. And he's assured me that if we need to call him, he'll still pick up the phone. So, Howard, thank you. I very much appreciate it. As you just heard, we're coming off a very successful fiscal year 2020, and especially Q4, in what was a challenging COVID-19 environment. We saw record software product revenue in Q4 and for the full year with fiscal 2020 software product revenue growing 6.8% year-over-year. Total revenue in 2020 grew 2.4% year-over-year. And while also a record high, we saw declines in our service revenue that partially offset the software product revenue growth, as some customers pulled back on their services and contract spend. As we look ahead to Q1 and fiscal year 2021, we expect to continue the momentum we saw at the end of 2020 and carry that into 2021 and are expecting software product revenue for Q1 2021 in the range of $118 million to $120 million or year-over-year growth of 8.8% to 10.7%; and for fiscal year 2021, in the range of $423 million to $431 million or a year-over-year growth of 8.0% to 10.0%. In looking at total revenue for 2021, we believe our services revenue has stabilized. And although we do not expect to see service revenue declines in 2021, like we did in 2020, we are not expecting service revenue growth either, as we continue into what is likely another mixed COVID-19 year. As a result, we are forecasting total revenue for Q1 2021 in the range of $138 million to $140 million or a year-over-year growth of 5.0% to 6.5%; and for fiscal year 2021, in the range of $502 million to $510 million, or year-over-year growth of 6.8% to 8.5%. We believe our revenue guidance is balanced, but will depend on the levels and speed of the post-COVID recovery, particularly in the later part of the year. From a cost perspective, the company succeeded in limiting expenditures during 2020, while in the midst of COVID-19 uncertainty. In particular, during 2020, we reduced marketing and tradeshow costs by almost 40%, relative to the prior year and reduced travel and entertainment costs by 68%. In 2021, we expect some of this activity to return to normal, resulting in an increase in costs year-over-year, particularly in Q2 through Q4 2021. As we anniversary some of those cost cuts, and as travel resumes. However, we will continue to be disciplined in our expenditures. We are currently looking at targeted reductions in employee costs, contractor costs, and professional services spend as we reorganize within the business. We expect these reductions to be substantially complete in the first half of 2021, freeing up capacity for investments in our product technology and sales capacity. As a result, we expect to incur cash reorganization costs in the first half of between $5 million to $7 million, which is excluded from our adjusted EBITDA. For Q1 2021, we expect adjusted EBITDA in the range of $24 million to $26 million or year-over-year growth of 10.7% to 20.0%, which translates to adjusted EBITDA margin of 17.4% to 18.6%. And for fiscal year 2021, we expect adjusted EBITDA in the range of $58 million to $66 million or year-over-year growth of 1.2% to 15.2%, which translates to adjusted EBITDA margin of 11.6% to 12.9%. Our expectations on adjusted EBITDA are inclusive of the cost reductions and investments I mentioned a moment ago. We expect free cash flow for the year to increase in line with the increase in adjusted EBITDA and will be impacted by the reduction related cash costs and are forecasting free cash flow for fiscal year 2021 in the range of $26 million to $34 million. As a reminder, our cash flow expectations are sensitive to billings and collection patterns, which fluctuate seasonally. We've provided detailed guidance tables in our earnings press release, which was issued after close of market yesterday and includes guidance on non-GAAP net income. Moving forward, when measuring non-GAAP net income, we will exclude non-cash interest expense and will apply a consistent non-GAAP income tax rate. We've made these changes to reflect management's view of the business and to be more consistent with our peers. These changes will be applied to comparable prior periods to aid in comparability and have been provided in the supplemental tables in our earnings press release. COVID-19 developments continue to evolve. But we are cautiously optimistic on a broad economic recovery as we look ahead to 2021. Altair has never been better positioned to support our customers on solving some of the most challenging problems faced by engineers, scientists, and data analysts. Our simulation products are being increasingly adopted earlier in the design process, improving product performance and reducing costs for our customers. Our HPC products are enabling customers to maximize their compute resources. And our data science and preparation tools are leveraging AI to enable customers to organize and visualize data to make important decisions quickly. We see these solutions converging and providing real value to our customers. With that, we'd be happy to take your questions. Operator?

[Operator:]

Thank you. Our first question comes from Rich Valera with Needham. Your question, please.

[Richard Valera:]

Thank you. Good morning and congratulations on a strong finish to the year. And, Howard, best wishes on your next chapter and welcome, Matt. And with that, I wanted to just talk about how the quarter played out versus your expectations, really nice upside in the quarter. And I'm wondering, was that a result of things coming in? Have you actually seen improvements during the quarter or just conservatism get embedded into the guidance, because you were kind of concerned about a COVID second wave, which I think you'd mentioned on last quarter's call? Just wondering where that upside came from on the quarter relative to your expectations.

[James Scapa:]

So, Rich, we're on different places.

[Howard Morof:]

Jim, go ahead or I'm happy to answer.

[James Scapa:]

Yeah, why don't you answer that, Howard, that'd be great?

[Howard Morof:]

Sure. Sure, so, Richard, and thank you for the nice words. We certainly entered with a sense of conservatism as we've, frankly, been pretty cautious over the course of the entire year, for obvious reasons, for most of 2020, for obvious reasons. So we entered the quarter conservative. We know that in Q4 we have a little higher proportion of new and expansion revenue, as is typical in our Q4. So the conservatism that we saw was very well warranted. Against that backdrop, the quarter continued to, I would say, improve as the quarter navigated along, reflecting growth investments, strength in our customer base, and frankly, continued use and growth in adoption of technologies that are ever so critical to our customers. So I think it was really a sort of a combination of conservatism, and as well, new and expansion in the way that you would hope to see.

[Richard Valera:]

That's great. And then, maybe, for you, Jim, great to hear about your success selling kind of converged analytics and simulation solutions. I just want to get your sense of where you are in that path towards creating that converged model, kind of relative to maybe where you thought you were going to be, when you made the acquisition and where you think it could be, say, 5 years from now, what you've done so far, and maybe what you're doing to further that integration? And then, just where you are in sort of the model transition for that analytics business? Thanks, Jim.

[James Scapa:]

Okay. Thanks, Rich, nice to hear your voice. So, I mean, I think that the model transition is largely done at this point. We've really moved things over to subscription pretty well at this point and where it's kind of on par with the rest of this year. So that part is done. As far as sort of this convergence between the engineering and the data analytics, I think it's a very natural transformation that's really happening. It's happening within our products, and in ways that customers and users don't even know it's happening to some extent. And it's also happening for customers who really are beginning to recognize the opportunity. So we have, almost every one of our account managers has opportunities at this point that are really taking advantage of this convergence. And it's really starting to engage. We're starting to understand use cases that make sense, as we have success and point those use cases to other customers. So 5 years from now, I don't think we're going to be talking about sort of a difference between simulation and AI. I think it's all going to be computational science, basically that we're talking about.

[Richard Valera:]

That's great. Thanks for that, Jim, and congrats again on a nice performance.

[James Scapa:]

Thank you.

[Operator:]

Our next question comes from Jackson Ader with J.P. Morgan. Your question, please.

[Jackson Ader:]

Great. Good morning, guys. And, yeah, I'll echo Rich's thoughts. Howard, it's been a lot of fun. And welcome, Matt. First question on the reorganization, what areas of the sales force or, I guess, what types of sales investments will you guys be making? Where are you going to be shifting chips away from and being placing bets?

[James Scapa:]

Sure.

[Matthew Brown:]

Yeah, Jackson, thanks for the question. Jim, you want to take a stab at that and then pass it to me?

[James Scapa:]

Yeah, yeah, I think I should answer that question. Sorry, Matt. So in terms of where we're continuing to invest, we are continuing to invest in enterprise level customers who we see large opportunities with, so we're beginning to target our direct account managers more and more those opportunities and create more focus for them. We're creating swim lanes really in the market. And working - the direct account managers have the accounts that make sense for these enterprise opportunities. We have inside sales and business development, working more down market and indirect also down market in combination with them. So we're continuing to make investments. We're just - we think we're just getting smarter at how we're organizing and leveraging the sales resources and the capacity that we have. Matt, can you answer something there. I'm not sure what he's going to…

[Matthew Brown:]

Yeah, I mean, I would just chime in and say, from a high-level context, right, I mean, this is - over the past 5 years, we've done 23 or so acquisitions. And continue to really refine our operating model. And so, that's how I would characterize this. We're going to continue to invest in our product technology and in our sales engine moving forward. And so, this is really a refocusing is the way that I would characterize it.

[Jackson Ader:]

Okay. And then a follow-up, I guess, directly from that. What's the FX tailwind in 2021 for the revenue growth guidance?

[Matthew Brown:]

It's a couple of points. I think we are - obviously, as we guide 2021, we're using today's rates on the FX, so you're not - we're not anticipating movement in the FX rates. But within the comparable to the sort of year-over-year impact, it's worth a couple of points of FX on the revenue line, but next to nothing on EBITDA, those naturally offset.

[Jackson Ader:]

Sure. All right, great. Thank you.

[Operator:]

Our next question comes from Bhavan Suri with William Blair. Your question, please.

[Bhavan Suri:]

Great. Thanks for taking my question and I'll echo my congrats in the quarter. Welcome, Matt. And, Howard, we will miss you. I'm sure we'll run into each other again, but best of luck. I guess, I want to touch on a couple of quick things. One - maybe this one is for Jim. Jim, the services business naturally, obviously, this year or in 2020 had challenges, just COVID, et cetera. But as you think about it, one of the great things about that business was you got really intimate with customers, like you got to understand what they were doing, what they wanted. It drove some product development or at least ideas around innovation. And as you think about 2021 and 2022, do you think you reinvest in that business a little bit to sort of keep that customer intimacy to keep those guys at the customers to help them with their solutions, but also to help guide and drive product innovation? How should we think about that playing out?

[James Scapa:]

We are still very, very actively engaged with a lot of customers, I'll say, very advanced projects, in electric motors, batteries, those kinds of things, additive manufacturing, simulation, all of that. The service business that declined, if you will, last year, is closer to - it's a continuum of super advanced stuff that we do, down to a more commodity level. And we don't do the very commodity anymore over the last 5 or 10 years. But still that are getting lost, if you will or more of the things on the commodity level side. So we're still very engaged with customers, customers still recognize the technical superiority of Altair. And, it's advancing our products still, but it's also advancing these relationships.

[Bhavan Suri:]

Got it. Got it. And then maybe one for Howard and Matt combined maybe, but you haven't had that philosophy over the x number of years about guidance with Jim and team. And I guess, Matt, as you look at the guidance for 2021, given there is still risk in COVID. And you think about sort of billings was up 1% or a little above that in constant currency. I guess, what are you seeing in pipeline or our customers in the auto space hiring more engineers? Are you seeing closed rates improve, lands improve, the size of the initial land improve, expand improve, that sort of gives you that visibility confidence? Again, the business itself is not choppy, but the customer adoption, customer buying behavior can be choppy. So just trying to understand, how you guys have thought about the guidance and sort of what you bring to the table in terms of visibility, I'd love to sort of think about that both tactically for 2021 in the strategic, how do you think about guidance? Thank you.

[Matthew Brown:]

Yeah, yeah. No, I appreciate the question. So I would say that we are cautiously optimistic about 2021. And you can kind of separate top-line at least into the 2 sections

[James Scapa:]

If I could add to that. I think, sometimes it's undervalued by you guys. But our recurring revenues, I think, in 2020 is something over 92%. So we go into the year and very, very sturdy even in 2020, so we go into the year with pretty high recurring revenue. We expect the attrition on that to be a little bit better than the prior year. When we look at new win expansion, of course, we were a little bit weaker last year there. But we can judge how weak we were against, where we expect we might be. And, all of that together, gives us that cautious optimism as well.

[Bhavan Suri:]

Got you. Got you. Really helpful, guys. Thanks for take my question. Appreciate it.

[James Scapa:]

Thank you.

[Operator:]

Thank you. Our next question comes from Ken Wong with Guggenheim Securities. Your question, please.

[Kenneth Wong:]

Great. Thank you for taking my question. This one for you, Jim. In the data space, you have a Southern California based competitor that saw a little bit of softness, and just based on what we're hearing from you guys, it looks like you feel that your business is powered forward quite nicely. Just wondering, maybe what some of the trends you're seeing there? And maybe what some of the differences are in terms of why you guys seem to be resurging forward where they can be seen a little bit of weakness?

[James Scapa:]

So I can't speak to the other guys. But for us, I think we have a very, very strong solution on the data prep side that just continues to go forward. But I think the rest of our offering frankly speaking is quite a bit deeper and broader, and the guide, I assume you're alluding to. And, frankly, all of that integrated with the rest of our business and our targeting things gives us this optimism.

[Kenneth Wong:]

Got it. Got it. And then this one for the Matt and Howard combo. I guess, on the EBITDA guide, it doesn't look like you guys are getting much leverage mix on the full year basis. It looks like it's going to be flat from a margin perspective. Can you maybe just walk us through some of the moving pieces on the spend side whether it's reinvestment versus a rebound in discretionary, or anything else we might be missing from a spend perspective that maybe keeps us from getting more leverage on EBITDA?

[Matthew Brown:]

Yeah, sure, Ken, I'll take that. So you may be under estimating that a little bit, I think, if you look at how we exited Q4 from a spend perspective. That really is probably your best basis as you move forward through the year. And so you can see we carry that into the Q1 guide in terms of the spend. It's not much incremental spend from Q4 to Q1 at the midpoint of the guide. But then as you look forward through the year, you actually will see off of that run rate, you will see a reduction in our expected spend that's implicit in the guide. So make sure that you're taking that into account. There's some nice efficiencies there that are coupled with investment in our technology and in sales, and some headwinds that we're seeing from some returned to normal on travel and marketing expenses. So I think it's a pretty fair guide. And actually, I'm pretty happy with that outcome.

[Kenneth Wong:]

Great. Thanks a lot for that, Matt.

[Operator:]

Thank you. Our next question comes from Brian Essex with Goldman Sachs. Your question, please.

[Brian Essex:]

Hi, good morning, and thank you for taking the question. Maybe, Jim, a question for you, in your prepared remarks, you gave several nice examples of customers significantly restructuring their relationships, but whereas what are the overall trends with regard to adoption of product groups within the Altair unit platform? Are you seeing a meaningful number of enterprises buy for greater flexibility? Maybe, for example, buying multi-physics instead of mechanical engineering to enable usage of perhaps SimLab, Inspire and other adjacent applications?

[James Scapa:]

So the answer is, yes. Actually, the Altair Units model has been very, very well received. It's well received by my account management team, they really appreciate it, because it gives them the ability to get the right value out of customers that are willing to pay more for the extra service features, products, and it lets us basically be competitive and on gaining markets, where the customers are more price sensitive. So I think, our guys are seeing it well, I think the customers are appreciating as well actually very, very fair model for them. And we are seeing the option for sure.

[Brian Essex:]

Great. That's good to hear. And maybe just a follow-up to Bhavan's question. On services is the bench of services talent that you have access to limited to a certain group of businesses or verticals, or perhaps certain technology versus some emerging technology? In other words, how applicable are those services, as you continue to extend your model into emerging businesses or additional incremental technology for acquisitions?

[James Scapa:]

We have very, very significantly shifted skill sets that we have, I mean, if you look at the projects that we're doing in electronics, electric vehicle, electric motor, sensors, IoT devices. We are at the state-of-the-art basically battery design. I think you'd be surprised that the expertise that we have now.

[Brian Essex:]

Great. That's super helpful. Thank you very much, and congrats on the results.

[James Scapa:]

Thank you.

[Operator:]

Thank you. Our next question comes from Matt Hedberg with RBC Capital Markets. Your question, please.

[Matthew Hedberg:]

Hey, thank you, and congrats for me as well. And obviously, Howard, great working with you and Matt; look forward to working with you again. I just had one question. And it's really a follow up to Brian's question on Altair units. Obviously, you're seeing success there. And it opens up new opportunities. I guess the question is, when you think about the 2021 guide, how do you contemplate? How pervasive - or may be set differently, the impact on top-line growth with increasing usage of Altair units. Just wondering how you sort of conceptually thought about that as you contemplated the outlook for 2021.

[Matthew Brown:]

Yeah. So…

[James Scapa:]

I mean, I answer that. But I personally, am not thinking about it at that sort of granular level, and trying to model that. I don't know Matt or Howard have been trying to do that. For us, we're strictly looking at what we see the pipeline looking like.

[Matthew Brown:]

Yeah, and I can chime in there to Jim. So, Matt, good to hear from you. So some helpful context, I think, so far, as of now, roughly one-third of our customers have actually already converted. So I think that's important to know. And we're going to expect the rest of those customers to be substantially completed within the next year. So we'll see that throughout the year. The way that I'm thinking about it is, is that as these customers convert, they're finding their way into the suite that makes the most sense for them. In some cases, it ends up being slight price increase. In other instances, they're finding a suite that makes sense for them where they can utilize exactly the products that they want. And so in the first year, I'm not expecting a meaningful impact. But what I think it does set us up for the future, in a way that allows these users to expand within the suites that they're really using. And it allows us to get the value for that, particularly at the enterprise level. So hopefully that answers your question. We're not baking in at the meaningful impact in the year, and so far, and we see as one-third of our customers already converted.

[Matthew Hedberg:]

Super helpful. Thanks, guys.

[Operator:]

Our next question comes from Gal Munda with Berenberg Capital. Your question, please.

[Gal Munda:]

Hey, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. The first one is just a little bit in the past, you've talked about how the usage has trended, especially towards the end of the year kind of give us a little bit of an update over the year, and maybe I'm not specifically asking about the quarter itself. But just in general, how have you seen usage on solvers evolving throughout the 2020? That'd be very helpful.

[James Scapa:]

Gal, first of all, good morning to you. I think your question was, how do we see the usage of solvers evolving? Is that correct?

[Gal Munda:]

No. How has evolved and how did you see it? What was kind of the performance in 2020, just as an overall considering the fact that you had people working remotely? Yeah.

[James Scapa:]

Sorry. The solver suite that we have continues to gain share, we think and grow almost in every area for us, actually. So, if you went back 10 years ago, we were primarily a pre-post company. Today, a very significant part of our business is really on the physics side of the business, and that's going to continue to grow even more as time goes on. So solvers are an ever-increasing part of our overall business and strategy.

[Gal Munda:]

Okay. That's helpful. Thank you. Thanks, Jim. And then, in light of your comments about kind of being a little bit more mindful of the way you invest in sales, and really trying to attract those enterprise level sales from - and rebasing some of the other efforts, either into the indirect channel, or . How far would you say you progress on the indirect sales channel? Now, you've talked in the past about your ambitions to significantly increase contribution to revenue from that side? Was 2020 kind of a year of foundation? And you expect that to come for in 2021, or any color on that? Thank you.

[James Scapa:]

Sure, we've made some progress, I would say, and it depends on the geography. But, from my point of view, not as much progress as I would like to see, particularly in the Americas. So, I think the inside sales, the business development piece of the business has really gotten a lot of traction for us. I think the indirect is getting traction more and more in Europe and continuing to APAC. And in the Americas, I think we have some more work to do, quite frankly.

[Gal Munda:]

Thank you, Jim. That's very helpful.

[Operator:]

Thank you. Our next question is from Mark Schappel from Benchmark. Your question, please.

[Mark Schappel:]

Hi, thank you for taking my questions. First off, Howard, the best to you going forward. It's good working with you. But, Jim, a question for you, just wondering if we could dig a little bit deeper into your strategic partnership with GE as part of the acquisition. I was wondering if you just could provide some additional details on the arrangement and what we should expect from it going forward.

[James Scapa:]

So, I mean, this is a long coming partnership for us. We've been working with GE for a couple of years now with this technology. It was actually part of the Altair Partner Alliance, and now, the spin-out from GE to be something that we've taken over responsibility for it 100%. There's a very, very large user base of this technology inside of GE. It's in the thousands. And they are excited, I think, about having commercial software company, take responsibility for it and there's a lot of opportunities, to leverage this, to grow the partnership in many different directions with GE, around all of our software. So that part we're very excited about. There are other projects that we actually have been doing with GE, in the area of rotating machinery and others, independent of the Flow Simulator project. And coming to Flow Simulator, it's a really terrific piece of technology that was developed inside of GE. Very often, if I can be candid, the OEMs have a lot of internal development that they do, but very often it's not all commercial grade. And they often are looking to spin it out, and very often it's not really competitive. This is not the case here. This is a great piece of technology. It's getting traction in a lot of customers for us, and we're very, very excited to have it with us. So it's just a very nice partnership with GE. It's a great piece of technology. And it is a model for things that we think we can do with some other customers as well.

[Mark Schappel:]

Great, thank you very helpful. And then, additional question here. On a quarter or two ago, you released your Inspire Mold solution. I was wondering - and that was a pretty significant capability for the plastics industry. And I know it's still early, but I was wondering if you've had any Inspire Mold wins at the end of the year here that you could talk about.

[James Scapa:]

We have some wins, but probably nothing that I can reach into my bag of tricks and speak about in a coherent way. It's pretty early days and we see a lot of interest in the product. And we're pretty hopeful that we're going to see a lot of traction around it. But it's, frankly, a little early. Ask me in another quarter or two and I'll tell you how we're doing. I'll make sure to study it more before the next call.

[Mark Schappel:]

Okay, great. I'll make sure to do so. Thank you. That's all for me.

[James Scapa:]

Thank you.

[Operator:]

Thank you. And this concludes our Q&A session for today. I would like to turn the call back to our CEO, James Scapa, for his final remarks.

[James Scapa:]

Yeah. Thank you. So in conclusion here, I just want to thank everyone for their support and feeling great about 2020 with so many challenges, and very excited about 2021. And once again, just want to say a final thank you to Howard for just being a wonderful partner for me for so many years, initially on the Board and then coming in as CFO for the company, helping me to transform our finance department, helping us to go public and just been a wonderful partner for me for so many years, so wishing Howard the best and thanks to everyone else. So long.

[Operator:]

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your participation in today's program. You may now disconnect. Have a wonderful day.