Crocs, Inc.
Q3 2013 Earnings Call Transcript

Published: 31 Oct 2013

[Operator:]

Welcome to the Crocs Third Quarter 2013 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] I would like to remind everyone that this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to turn the presentation over to Mr. William Kent, Senior Director of Investor Relations. Mr. Kent, please go ahead.

[William Kent:]

Thank you, Jill, and thank you all for joining us today for our third quarter 2013 earnings conference call. Earlier this afternoon, we announced our third quarter 2013 financial results. A copy of the press release can be found on our website at crocs.com. We would like to remind everyone that some information provided in this call will be forward-looking, and accordingly, are subject to the Safe Harbor provisions of the federal securities laws. These statements include, but are not limited to, statements regarding future revenue and earnings, backlog and future orders, prospects and product pipeline. We caution you that these statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties described in the Risk Factors section of the company’s 2012 report on Form 10-K filed on February 26, 2013 with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Accordingly, actual results could differ materially from those described on this call. Those listening to the call are advised to refer to Crocs' Annual Report on Form 10-K, as well as other documents filed with the SEC for additional discussion of these risk factors. Crocs intends that all of its forward-looking statements in this call will be protected by the Safe Harbor of the Securities and Exchange Act of 1934. Crocs is not obligated to update these forward-looking statements to reflect the impact of future events. The company may refer to certain non-GAAP metrics on this call, including adjusted net income. Explanation of these metrics can be found on the earnings release filed earlier today. I'll now turn now turn the call over to John McCarvel.

[John P. McCarvel:]

Thanks, Will, and thank you for joining us on our third quarter earnings call. With me today is Jeff Lasher, Crocs' Chief Financial Officer. I'll begin the call today with commentary on the third quarter, followed by Jeff, who will review the financial results for the third quarter and walk through our fourth quarter guidance. I will then add some additional insights on our ongoing business before we take questions. Turning to the quarter. Our results for the third quarter were in line with the updated guidance we provided in early September. While the Crocs brand and business model remains strong, there is no doubt there was a more difficult quarter than we had anticipated at the time of our last earnings call. I want to highlight what went well during Q3 and also discuss factors that impeded our performance and what we're doing about them. Let's start with a regional view. We continue to be pleased with the performance of our Asia Pacific and European segments. Notably, we believe our European business has turned the corner and we are seeing positive signs in all segments of this business

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

Thank you, John. Hello, everyone, and thanks again for joining us. What I'd like to do is go through the factors that impacted our third quarter results and our guidance for Q4. In the third quarter, we had various challenges that impacted our results. These include a more challenging wholesale marketing in the Americas and Japan, a decline in Internet volume in the Americas, unfavorable foreign exchange rate, ongoing expenses associated with SAP and increased marketing investment. Partially offsetting these issues was an overall increase in revenue from our Europe business with particular success of wholesale volume, up 28%; Internet volume and same-store sales in Europe, up 9%. Our Asia business also saw strong same-store sales of 9% over last year. In total, on a year-over-year basis, our net earnings were down $32 million compared to 2012. Our tax expense for the quarter was up $10 million as compared to the credit in tax expense last year. We had an overall impact of about $7 million, associated with a stronger U.S. dollar compared to last year in Japan. In addition, we had SAP expenses of $2 million over prior year, and an additional marketing investment of $2 million. For the quarter, revenues decreased $7 million or 2% to $288.5 million for the quarter. On a constant currency basis, revenue was up 1%. Revenue for the quarter was down mainly due to a soft wholesale market in our Americas segment as a result of conservative customer inventory demands throughout the United States, lower-than-expected e-commerce volume in the Americas, as well as unfavorable foreign currency fluctuations in our Japan segment compared to the same period in 2012. On a unit basis, volume decreased 3% to 12 million total units. This was partially offset by a 2% increase in ASP, which was $23.11 in the quarter. Clogs represented 45% of unit sales in the quarter, down from 48% last year; while non-clog boots, wedges, loafers and women's casual shoes increased as a percent of overall unit sales. Overall, our retail revenue increased 11% over 2012 level, as we added 95 net new locations since the end of last year's third quarter. Global retail same-store sales decreased 2% from last year, with Americas down 7%, Asia Pacific was up 9%, Europe was up 9% and Japan was down 14%. Gross profit decreased $7.2 million or 4.5% to $153.6 million for the quarter. Gross margin percentage decreased 120 basis points for the quarter. This activity was mainly driven by unfavorable foreign currency fluctuations in our Japan segment, offset partially by improving gross margins in our Europe wholesale business and leverage from distribution and fulfillment costs. Selling, general and administrative expenses increased $15 million or 12% to $136 million for the quarter. We specifically expensed $3 million quarter-to-date for our new SAP enterprise system development costs. In addition, we saw an increase of $9 million in retail-related costs, including rent, personnel and operating expenses of 95 additional retail stores as we ended the quarter with 594 retail locations, up from 499 last year. Our healthy balance sheet continues to be a source of notable strength. We had global cash reserves of $333 million with limited debt, and believe that we will continue to grow cash balances from operations. In addition, we ended the quarter with inventory of $176 million. Our cash balances globally increased $43 million in the quarter. Revenues from the Americas segment decreased $16 million or 12% compared to the same period in 2012. Wholesale channel revenue decreased $11.3 million or 20%, and Internet channel revenue decreased $5.5 million or 33%. These decreases were partially offset as retail channel revenue increased $1 million over the prior year. During the quarter, revenue from the Asia Pacific segment increased $6.4 million or 9% compared to the same period in 2012. Revenue growth for this region was realized in all 3 channels, as we retained strong support from our wholesale channel customers, continued to focus on disciplined expansion of our retail channel as we opened net 15 company-operated stores during the quarter and have seen benefits from new consumer-friendly web stores in various countries through our Internet channel. Wholesale channel revenue increased $1 million or 2.3% and consumer direct channel overall revenue increased $6 million or 18%. Revenues from the Japan segment decreased $12 million or 23%, driven by a $10 million unfavorable impact from foreign currency fluctuations due to this year's recent increases in the value of the Japanese yen relative to the U.S. dollar. Retail revenue on a constant currency basis increased 17%, while wholesale revenue declined 11% from prior year. Specifically, with the yen declining 18% versus the U.S. dollar in the quarter, year-over-year reported revenue was reduced by 3% on a consolidated basis. This had a approximately 300 basis point impact on our overall company gross margin and 230 basis point impact on our operating margin. This represented $0.11 of EPS decline year-over-year. Our Europe segment increased $14 million or 36% compared to the same period in 2012. Revenue growth for the region was realized in all 3 channels. Retail channel revenue increased $7.4 million or 65%; wholesale channel revenue increased $4.7 million or 21%; and Internet channel revenue increased $1.9 million or 35%. To reiterate the quarter results, in total, on a year-over-year basis, our net earnings were down $32 million compared to 2012. Our tax expense was up $10 million as compared to the credit last year. We had an overall impact of about $7 million associated with the Japanese yen. In addition, we had SAP expenses of $2 million and marketing investment of $2 million. Moving on to guidance for Q4. In the fourth quarter, we expect revenue to be flat to somewhat down compared to the prior year as we forecast revenue of $220 million to $225 million. So on a constant currency basis, it's about 1% to 4% over last year, and we estimate a loss of $0.20 to $0.23 per share. We expect gross margins in the fourth quarter to be down from the prior year and SG&A expenses to increase faster than revenue as a result of additional retail store locations. We plan to end the year with just over 600 company-owned locations and about 1,700 total partner stores around the globe. Backlog at end of the second quarter is up from prior year. Total backlog as of September 30 is $399 million, up $4 million from 2012 or 1%. However, on a constant currency basis, backlog is up 4%. Currency expectations are now 98 for the yen and 135 for the euro. Thanks. I will now turn the call back over to John for some closing comments before taking questions.

[John P. McCarvel:]

Thanks, Jeff. As we end -- as we near the end of our prepared remarks today, I want to give an update on our stock repurchase authorization. I'm pleased to announce on October 29 this year, 2013, the company's Board of Directors approved an additional $15 million shares under the existing 2007 stock repurchase authorization. This brings the total shares available for repurchase by the company under the existing authorization to approximately 17.8 million shares. The number, price and timing will be at the company's sole discretion, and will be evaluated depending upon market conditions, liquidity needs or other factors. In closing today, as in the past, our strategy for profitable growth has 3 pillars. The first is optimizing our multichannel go-to-market strategy. Our priorities in this area at this moment are improving management of a challenging retail dynamic in the U.S., in part by balancing the number of full line and outlet stores and solving for the same in Europe. We're strategically growing our retail presence in South -- in Asia Pacific, sorry, which continues to offer tremendous promise. We are experimenting with ways to make it easier than ever to purchase Crocs for the channel-agnostic consumer. We're continuing to invest in how our consumers experience the brand digitally across all platforms, from desktop, laptop, computers, to tablets, to smartphones or to other types of in-store interactive displays, ensuring a seamless experience for our consumers regardless of the time and day and physical location. The second strategic pillar is product. We're expanding our partnerships and licensing activities to offer our consumers outstanding properties from our footwear collection collaboration with Duck Commander, inspired by the A&E hit, Duck Dynasty, to a very special line designed exclusively for Crocs by Project Runway star, Mondo Guerra. In late spring, we will launch a new footwear partnership with Star Wars coinciding with the May the Fourth Be With You promotion, featuring new limited-edition Star Wars production products available on May 4. I'm sure many of you will be pleased to know that our Star Wars line for the first time will come in adult sizes also. The third pillar of our growth strategy is the Crocs brand through effective innovative marketing, that connects with our consumers, brings new consumers to the brand and embodies our signature attributes of color, comfort and fun, most of all. Lastly, I'm sure you're all aware of the devastating floods that impacted our home State of Colorado last month. I'm proud to say that Crocs donated more than $75,000 in product and monetary donations to the flood victims and first responders. Given the mud and water that they were dealing with, our boots and other easy-to-clean footwear styles were the right thing at the right time. Crocs employees in Colorado also volunteered to help out with the recovery works, and I want to thank them for their willingness to assist their neighbors. In closing, the strength and potential of this company remains clear to all of us here at Crocs despite the challenging times we're managing through in North America and Japan. We have a strong global brand, a broad and expanding product line, a business model that we continue to fine-tune, a very strong balance sheet that gives us the ability to invest in business while returning capital to shareholders. We also have a dedicated team of Crocs employees at our headquarters and the regions. We're working hard to improve our company's performance, and I'd like to thank them for their dedication. With that, we will open up the lines to take your questions.

[Operator:]

[Operator Instructions] And our first question comes from Erinn Murphy from Piper Jaffray.

[Erinn E. Murphy:]

I have 2 questions. One for John, and then just a quick clarification for Jeff. John, on the backlog, if you have 4% on a constant currency basis, I recall that kind of closer to double-digits, kind of midway through September. Could you just speak to kind of what some of that delta is, maybe either by region? I mean, recognizing the U.S. has been a very tough market of late, just help us think about what is involved in that backlog? And at this point, what's the visibility do you have from the backlog on to the spring, early spring orders? So that's my first question for you.

[John P. McCarvel:]

So I think as we try to communicate at each stage, at each different date and time where we are at relative to backlog, I think, today, we continue to see orders continue to come in for second quarter delivery from major markets in the Americas and in Japan, major customers in those 2 markets. And so what I think you're going to continue to see this year different than other years is just the order pattern, it's a little bit later. Most of our customers that had carryover product from '13 into '14 have placed their orders to fill in the lines or take new products for their Q1 deliveries. But what I think you'll see when we give the update on December 31 is increased backlog specifically in those 2 markets, which will put us more in line with prior expectation.

[Operator:]

And we'll go next to Taposh Bari with Goldman Sachs.

[Taposh Bari:]

John, I was hoping to just get some more context around your -- not really the timing of your share buyback but more of philosophies. So if I just go back over the past 12 months, you guys reactivated your share buyback program in the fourth quarter. You bought a little bit and you stopped. In the conference in September, you spoke about deploying about $80 million to $100 million of domestic cash. Now you're increasing that amount through your -- an authorization of about 20% of the company. I guess the obvious question I have is how do we think about urgency to actually activate that authorization? And then second part of that question would be how you plan on funding it.

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

So I think our first message is that, as of yesterday, the company's Board of Directors approved an additional $15 million under the 2007 stock repurchase authorization. The total available to repurchase now is 17.8 million shares. As you know, we have constantly monitored the marketplace as well as our cash needs internally, and depending on market conditions and liquidity needs, we've made some decisions in the past to dip into the market, purchase back some shares. We do have cash in the Americas geared up for share repurchases. And if the management team makes the decision to move forward with share repurchases, we will update you at the end of the next quarter as far as our activity.

[Taposh Bari:]

Okay. That's helpful, Jeff. And then a question on Japan. Just the philosophy towards retail growth in that country. You're growing your store base, I think it was up about 40% year-over-year in this past quarter. You're comping down 16% constant currency year-to-date. So I guess, at what point do you revisit the store growth strategy in that country?

[John P. McCarvel:]

Well, I think as you look at this year, a few of the stores that we have added have really actually been where we have taken over partner stores in mall locations, where the mall operators in Japan acquire the brand itself to run those outlet stores. So some of the additions of retail in Japan has really been a transfer of the existing stores from partners to Crocs with a few additions in key locations that we had in the pipeline dating back a year ago. We've looked at what our retail growth strategy will be in Japan next year. There'll be a nominal number of stores somewhere in probably to the 3 to 5 range, but we agree that we're continuing to look at whether we want to add additional stores in that market given the overall macroeconomic issues that they're facing. A sales tax that will kick in, in early April of '14, will also have an impact on consumer spending. So yes, we are constantly looking at revising our thinking about expansion in Japan in '14.

[Taposh Bari:]

Great. And just one quick one, I'll just squeeze in a third question. I don't know if you addressed this, I hopped on late, but 32% decline in the Americas Internet business? What happened there?

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

What I commented on, actually, as I went through my overview is really -- what we see is a lot of growth with other e-tailing partners today that buy a wide spectrum of Crocs shoes, so whether that be Amazon, Zappos, Shoebuyer, any of the other partners that we have in the e-tailing space were just -- were not buying business, were not chasing revenue by giving away margin dollars. And so, we're seeing the growth -- we have a sizable e-commerce business in the U.S. that was built up years ago ahead of other brands. And what we're seeing today is some of that business is moving from our own site to them buying that product, with their prime shipping capabilities within Amazon or within other e-tailers. So we just see it as a shift more than it is actual consumption dissipation.

[Taposh Bari:]

And I guess that's specific to the Americas region because it seems like Europe and Asia are actually performing quite well online?

[John P. McCarvel:]

Yes, there's a little bit different dynamic. I think Europe has been proactive in working with Amazon in cleaning up the marketplace activities that also create havoc for [indiscernible] today. U.S. is a little bit behind in that activity, in doing that. But we're actively working that, the third, fourth quarter of this year, that takes away a little bit from our own e-commerce operations. So we don't have that dynamic in the other markets, and the growth in Asia is on a much smaller base of revenue than it is in the U.S.

[Operator:]

[Operator Instructions] We'll go next to Jim Duffy with Stifel.

[Jim Duffy:]

A question on the operating margins, near 14% in 2012, looking like 8% or so in 2013. Can you put some paper [ph] around the main factors that led to the margin compression?

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

Yes. I think as we called out in the prepared remarks, the #1 item for us for this year has been the Japanese yen movements in total. For just Q3, we saw 230 basis point operating margin degradation associated with that particular dynamic. And that's probably the biggest mover. In addition...

[Jim Duffy:]

Do you have a sense of what that is for the year?

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

That would be a little bit higher, actually, for the year. It will be probably more like 250 to 300 basis points for the year because the quarter for Japan is actually relatively light relative to the balance of the year. So if we looked at it on a year-to-date basis, which we do internally, the currency dynamic has actually impacted us roundabout 300 basis points for the year.

[John P. McCarvel:]

I think, Jim, to add to what Jeff said, you have another $6 million impact for the Brazilian settlement.

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

Right.

[John P. McCarvel:]

You have another $6 million to date on SAP. And then you have, as we have communicated, as we started 2013, that we were going to up our marketing spend heavily in the U.S. with the number of new styles that we had coming out that would be kind of a onetime spend to help push new styles into the marketplace and bring new consumers to the brands. We look at 4 different dynamics there that have really caused the majority of the impact.

[Jim Duffy:]

And John, are there any sightlines to the bottom in the Japan business?

[John P. McCarvel:]

Well, I think what we see in the time that we spend in market with them. I think that they've seen a certain bottoming out. The fact that we're down 3% for the quarter, some -- up in our wholesale business, people continuing to add doors, our partners are continuing to add doors and investment into '14. We will add additional doors, wholesale doors in the market. So it's not that there aren't opportunities for the brand to grow. I think what's key for us right now is to ensure that, really, we've hit bottom on retail coming out of '13. And as I said in my prepared remarks, I think we -- all were very honest about how much that business benefited by a JPY 90, JPY 78 to $1 impact. Even with the pullback and a more even level of revenue in our retail stores, it's still our most profitable region and it's still our most profitable retail operation. So we think that we're at a place where we can sustain this going forward and then start to grow our wholesale business in Japan. We think we're in a good place with the brand and with products to be able to do that.

[Jim Duffy:]

Okay. And then, John, you listed a number of things core to the strategy. Certainly, it sounds like there's a lot of hard work going on across the organization. Can you talk, in more specific terms, about how those strategies are going to help you recapture the operating margin?

[John P. McCarvel:]

Well, it really starts with retail. We have to continue to comp our business in Europe and Asia as we have. We have to flatten where we're at from a Japan standpoint. And clearly, the work is in front of us in our U.S. retail group. I mean, we're ecstatic to have Greg onboard now. We waited for a period of time for him to transition from Walmart. And we think we have a really good retailer now to head up that organization, start to provide more leadership towards running that business. We think that there's an opportunity to be more profitable and to seek comp store growth in '14. It's all about execution right now. And I've laid out a number of key strategies. Our business has 6 key strategies for '13 and they're very similar for '14. So we don't have a myriad of different things that we're trying to work on. And one of our key elements, #1 element, for the business for '13 and for '14 is retail excellence. And we've invested in retail with the AlixPartners coming in early in the year to really pull it all apart with us. We'll look at how we go to market, we'll look at how we buy and allocate products, we'll look at how we run our retail stores and how that works. You don't generate all the benefit immediately, but we're seeing benefit as time goes on. And hopefully, we're going to see more benefit in '14.

[Operator:]

We'll go next to Scott Krasik with BB&T Capital Markets.

[Scott D. Krasik:]

I just want to clarify, John, your comments about the backlog accelerating when you report the fourth quarter. So Americas was down, I think, 12% or so. Are you assuming that that's going to be up 10%, was that what your general goals were for spring '14?

[John P. McCarvel:]

What we think, Scott, is really in the next basically 60 days, we're going to continue to see, on an account-by-account basis, additional orders flow in for both our U.S. marketplace and for Japan where we have key customers that are booking 4 15, 5 15 [ph] delivery dates for products that they have not placed orders for today.

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

And just to add to that, Scott, the prebooks for the Americas since September 30, and internally we look at their pace of prebooks that are coming in, and they've already closed about 1/3 of that gap that you identified. So the orders are coming in and we have some confidence around that statement.

[Scott D. Krasik:]

Okay. So in terms of deliveries though, Q1 is done and that's also a function of they took in a lot of product last year earlier. So there -- is it just like a normal weather delay? And you had a better first quarter then second quarter in terms of wholesale deliveries, so is it really a function of the comparison?

[John P. McCarvel:]

So I think last year, because of the number of new styles that we had, new doors and a couple of key accounts that we added last year, namely rec room, Off Broadway, that took products early, we just saw, after 2 seasons of early spring, a lot of the wholesale accounts being -- not having enough product for that early spring had pulled deliveries into 1 15, 2 15 and even 3 15. [ph] So I think we're seeing next year that kind of more even spreading of orders into a 4 1, 4 15, 5 1 [ph] delivery dates. So yes, we are seeing them not as aggressive as they were in '13 with orders.

[Scott D. Krasik:]

Okay. That's helpful. And then, Jeff, in terms of the first quarter operating margin in Japan, that was down to 25% from 41% a year before. Was that already part of the yen weakening? And so, do we anniversary that, and all else being equal, what are the pressures on Japan operating margins after we've anniversary-ed the yen weakening?

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

Yes. I think, number one, that the yen drop last year in the end of December is when their monetary policy changed and the yen dropped versus the U.S. dollar to close out 2012. So we've been impacted by this for the vast majority of 2013, and we will anniversary or lap that beginning of 2014. The important thing to notate on there, Japan backlog that we've reported externally on how much they have, and we say this is what they did last year and this is what they're doing this year. The Japan backlog may be down $18 million on a U.S. dollar basis, but you have to factor in that, last year, that $70 million of backlog that was reported today was at JPY 80 to $1, and the $52 million of yen that was reported today is in JPY 100 yen to $1, JPY 98 to $1. So when you kind of factor it in, that we're going to record that $52 million at the same exchange rate, we're going to be looking at a backlog release in the first half of roundabout that 4% to 5% growth rate in next year.

[Scott D. Krasik:]

That's good. Just -- and then -- but to answer the question in terms of once you've lapped the yen pressures, what are the swing factors then in the Japanese operating margin going forward?

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

I think they have a competitive marketplace that John talked about. They continue to diversify their product portfolio and merchandise their product portfolio better on a year-over-year basis. They do have a more aggressive issue with substitute products that compete with us in our space, and we are addressing that through constant product innovation.

[Operator:]

[Operator Instructions] And we'll go next to Sam Poser with Sterne Agee.

[Sam Poser:]

Did -- just did you guys buy back stock after the end of the quarter? Because on the Q -- on the cover page of the Q, we just couldn't sort it out. Could you tell us what's going on there?

[John P. McCarvel:]

Sam, if you look at the reported shares outstanding on Page 3 of the Q, you'll see that the number is the same as it was last quarter on the documentation on the Page 3, which is the official record of our shares as of September 30 and as of June 30. So no, we did not do any share repurchases in the quarter. We bought back shares in the first quarter. A little over 2 million shares in the first quarter, if I recall right, and we did not do any share repurchases in Q2.

[Sam Poser:]

Well, if I can follow up, on the cover of the Q2 Q, you had 91.6 million shares. And on the cover of the Q3 Q, you had 88.4 million shares.

[John P. McCarvel:]

Yes, at the end of the second quarter, we were picking up -- a number that included diluted shares in total and including restricted shares, the total number of issuance, so including the treasury stock. So that was an error that we fixed later on. So what you're looking at is kind of an apples-to-oranges, so we did not do any share...

[Sam Poser:]

All right. And then if I can ask about the marketing spend. One, can you talk about what that additional $2 million in the quarter was used for? And two, you said that it was a onetime event, but are you going to -- when you think about marketing next year, how do you think about it? Are you going to have additional costs for the -- for your store base? Are you going to have less costs on some of those other charges such as SAP and so on? How does this all -- how do you think about this all playing out, absolutely, from a dollar perspective?

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

Yes. They're kind of 3 -- maybe 3 questions in one. So first is that we had said that this would be a one-year incremental spend on a percentage basis to our '13 revenue. So as we finish up our '14 planning right now, we're basically flat to '12 with a few specific incremental spend items that we're going to do. We have a big promo in China with a Chinese star there that will be basically an overall Asian play in that space for us, which would be incremental to that '12 run rate. On the $2 million spend, additional spend in the quarter, Sam, it's across the globe. We spent additional money here in the U.S. on print advertising, social digital ads, additional spend in Europe, Japan and the U.S. on conversion for e-comm. So that $2 million was really distributed across all 3 channels and all 4 geographies.

[Sam Poser:]

And did it bring you what you wanted?

[John P. McCarvel:]

I think what we've learned over time is marketing spend has about a 6-month delay in conversion if we look at spend in prior years. Just because we put something out in front of the consumer, that doesn't mean that they're ready to buy it. We might place that idea in their minds that, "Hey, this is something interesting," and "When I go buy a sandal, I'm going to go, look at that product," or "I'm going to go buy a flip-flop or a new pair of sneakers." So we look at some of our marketing spend as pure conversion, some of it is brand building. And I think we're going to see for a wide distribution of new styles that we have this year, from wedges to sneakers. The retro products at the first part of the year, the retro sneakers in the back half of the year. Are we engaging and bringing new consumers to the brand? We see a number of new consumers coming into the brand, buying new products. So I think we're going to see, as we go forward, whether that's going to be an accretive spend for the company. We placed it in the places where we want it to be, and now we'll see if we're going to bear fruit.

[Sam Poser:]

And the e-commerce spend, though, would get a faster result. Could we assume that you didn't spend a lot of money on e-commerce in the United States or in the Americas?

[John P. McCarvel:]

That would be fair.

[Operator:]

And our next question comes from Mike Swartz with SunTrust.

[Mitch Van Zelfden:]

This is Mitch, in for Mike. Most of my questions have been answered but just on the retail side of the business, comps were down 4% in the third quarter. Was there a material difference in the comp points in the young stores versus those of your more mature cohort?

[John P. McCarvel:]

I think in the older stores, there's a certain segment of those older stores which were placed in locations where we thought about -- them as marketing locations years ago. As time has gone on though, I think the way that we look at it is more what do outlets in some of the newer high-traffic locations look like? Outlets continue to perform well. Outlets for us are running this year above 100% of their pro forma P&Ls when we looked at making those investments. So we're encouraged by the performance of new locations. And so -- and it's also, as we talk about in our business, both in Jeff's comments out in New York in September as well as what we said today, most of that investment going forward, whether it's in Europe or in the United States, is mainly the outlet sector for '13 going into '14.

[Mitch Van Zelfden:]

Okay. And then just on your outlook for Europe, obviously, it was a highlight this quarter. How do you see that market trending in the fourth quarter and into next year?

[John P. McCarvel:]

Forecast for Europe for the fourth quarter is up about 20% year-over-year. We think the management changes that we made there 2 years ago, the organization we have in place, growth of wholesale doors, the performance improved, performance of retail, as we've seen this year with another good comp quarter, the addition of Tim Lyons to that group to add another retail -- experienced retail leader to a growing retail business there, we're very upbeat on our European business. And of course, our e-commerce business has performed very well the last 2 quarters in Europe.

[Operator:]

And we'll take our last question from Scott Krasik with BB&T Capital Markets.

[Scott D. Krasik:]

Because there's one quarter left now, can you guys give us the Asia Pac and Japan sales and operating income breakdown for 4Q last year?

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

Yes, I'll give you last year, hold on one second. So why don't I just do this? I'll just give you Japan. So last year, our Japan business generated $24.2 million of USD revenue. It had an operating income of $4.6 million in Q4.

[Scott D. Krasik:]

Okay. That's helpful. And then, John, you sort of alluded to it before with Amazon and that type having some pressure on your Internet business, but given that they don't have a lot of pricing respectability, if you will, what did that do for your 200-plus stores in the U.S.? And if you knew that you'd be going to more promotional retail environments or e-commerce environments, would that change your strategy in retail in the U.S.?

[John P. McCarvel:]

Well, I think that there's 2 parts to it. The first part is how marketplace operates within Amazon and how our existing wholesale partners use that forum to sell products which, in turn, creates the dynamic within Amazon, the algorithm that looks at pricing. And so, it's really a matter of how do you address the first issue. The second thing of it is, and we've talked about this really repeatedly over the last 2 years, is continuing -- as Dale and our product development group continues to provide a larger portfolio of products, how we work on tiering and segmentating of products. And so, what you're going to continue to see into '14 is that not all products are going to be sold in all channels, and we're doing a much better job going into '14 putting the right products in the right place. That will also help our own retail stores, in terms of selling the type of products that we want to sell in our retail stores. You're going to see limited edition or limited quantity types of shoes rolling into our full price stores next year. Next year, you'll see outlet starting to have a more segregated line of products where we have outlet -- specifically built products for outlet so as we mature and we start to segment and tier a little bit better, Scott, I think you're going to see that start to dissipate. Is it going to be perfect? The answer is no, but it's going to take us a little bit of time to work through that. But there's a clear strategy and plan in place to be able to make it a win-win situation.

[Scott D. Krasik:]

Are you going to be there, in terms of product segmentation for spring '14 then, where you want it to be?

[John P. McCarvel:]

I think you're 75%, 80% of the way there. We're happy with where we're getting and where we're getting from a marketplace standpoint also. So I think we see improvement on the horizon here and, hopefully, that will help us to start the U.S., or Americas business next year.

[Operator:]

And we'll take a follow-up question from Sam Poser with Sterne Agee.

[Sam Poser:]

Scott, sort of -- it was sort of asked and answered to some degree, but a lot of -- in the prepared remarks, you talked about a lot -- when the business wasn't good, especially in the States, you talked about a lot of the macro things. I guess the thing, what -- like in the Americas, what are you doing -- the macro sort of affects everybody evenly, so what are you doing to change, to be aggressively changing against that so you can overcome the macro, offer better products, make the stores more efficient, work with your retailers in a different manner and so on and so forth?

[John P. McCarvel:]

Yes. I think we've covered a number of different things in the retail space, and I'll let Jeff kind of answer this. But Sam, I think, on the retail, we've taken inventory levels down over the last 2-plus years by being better at allocating, planning, merchandising, buying for the stores, how we segment, how we distribute and how we replenish products. So a lot of work has been done from a system standpoint and from a philosophical standpoint in terms of how we approach retail, how we segment out between full price stores and for our own outlet channel. I think the same thing is carrying over into how we take our flats, how we take our wedges. Even within wedges, what we put into what channel, where translucence goes, how we handle Huarache, where sneakers go, all the different elements of our product line are being segmented and tiered in a more effective way.

[Jeffrey J. Lasher:]

Yes. Sam, I think, as John mentioned in his prepared remarks, we're taking a hard look at all of our channels and regions to see where we can accelerate a growth pattern that's acceptable to all of us. We're certainly proud of our growth into a diverse 4-season footwear company, and continue to design products that surprise and please our customers. As we look out into 2014, we're going to continue to focus on innovation to bring customers the footwear products that they want

[Operator:]

And with no more questions in queue, I'd like to turn the call back to John McCarvel for closing remarks.

[John P. McCarvel:]

I'd like to thank everyone for joining us today for our Q3 earnings call, and we look forward to talking to you again in February. Thank you.

[Operator:]

This concludes today's call. Have a wonderful day.